My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Or even presenting the center view? From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. Reply. I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. 2 Introduction at court. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Truth or legend? Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? Vol. I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. Thank you. The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. OMAHA, Neb. Serious insight and analysis of the religion Im trying to fit into my new, authentic life. 1. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. 515-294-6532. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. End of my short story. [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. St. Martins Press. Now that the new Netflix documentary Murder Among the Mormons has come out, it also validates the important witness that Brent was in this event. So sorry for the delay!!!! I can hardly wait for the rest! Be the first to contribute! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. Awesome. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. My question to Brent is during or after authoring/editing New Approaches to the Book Mormon, did he have other or similar spiritual experiences that confirmed the historical facts (which may be viewed as counter experiences to those earlier in the church)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. Near the end of a presentation you gave for the ExMormon Foundation, you said something to the effect of: People ask me how Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how he pulled it off, how it all came about. What an amazing life Brent! My life has been enriched by theinquiries those books catalyzed. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! So sorry Maxine! Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. I am quite sure, that film is no longer shown. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Thomas, I can assure you Im living on the same planet you are. Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. Im not excited anymore. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. I hope you consider doing this. This was an important, affecting interview. Given that, do you think that Joseph Smith deliberately plotted, prepared, researched, drafted, re-drafted the book over several years, or did it flow spontaneously from his subconscious mind in ways even he didnt understand? (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." D&C 76:2021). If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. Long question, sorry ! Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. I do remember after my baptismal interview having a strong feeling of love and admiration for him because someone so respected thought I was special too. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. Hi, was wondering if Brent is still available to respond to my train of thought above? He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? Do you know if the church took down the names of all the 7th East Press people? Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? John, please interview Mark Hoffman someday if you can! 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . You guys at MS are doing great. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? We had some technical difficulties. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. Learn how your comment data is processed. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. I am waiting patiently for part 3. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. Hope all is good with you. All rights reserved. To those people like me, however, who find themselves on the butt end of his speeches, may consider him to come across as aggressive, brash and unsympathetic. The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. I also wanted to tell you how disturbed I became to my very core about the way you were treated during your working for the church Then the description of the events of day of the bombings, where the meeting was still set with the GA! My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. Thats not necessarily a problem, of course. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. Biography [ edit] As a prep wrestler, Metcalf went undefeated with a career record of 228-0, won four consecutive Michigan state titles, and earned six junior national titles. Oh, that would be great! I have that info direct from Mac himself. This was interesting all around. The 7th East Press was a gem. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. I teared up with Brent during that part. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. Nicely done, John. Coming from similar backgrounds, Mark and Brent subsequently began working together on finding and authenticating documents, which eventually turned their relationship into a friendship. Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? I just finished listening to part one and I loved it! Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. Awesome music, right? Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. But thats when he came across books arguing the truthfulness of Mormonism and began questioning the same. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. I have some insights into that. Brent Metcalf Resides in Modesto, CA Includes Address (1) Phone (1) See Results Statistics for all 3 Brent Metcalf results: 50 yrs AVERAGE AGE 100% are in their 50s, while the average age is 50. Riveting stuff. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. I., **My question is if Brent could provide a copy of the parallels between Elias Snow and Joseph Smith that Wilford Paulson (former BYU professor)inserted into the book. Privacy Policy. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? If Krakauer can interview Dan Lafferty, it might be possible. Great interview. She has become the matron saint of Mormon studies (that's a promotion from her previous role as the den mother of Mormon studies). If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? We were both greenies at the same time. Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. Post-Vatican II a renaissance of sorts occurred in scriptural exegesis (for example, scholars no longer felt compelled to affirm the priority of Matthew and they began reassessing the synoptic gospels and John more critically). Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. Interested to hear about your mission, did you serve in Wandsworth at all? And you are an example. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Brent, I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. Why do you think the church is so fearful, silencing members and burying facts ? This is definitely a not-miss interview. This is a rumor I heard. This was an excellent broadcast! "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. ), Visitation of Hertfordshire 1572 & 1634 (London, 1886), 116. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . :). Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. Leave a Reply Cancel reply. I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Thanks to the both of you! How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? Heres a link to the Deseret News write up on the presentation: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? Thank you so much for being so open and honest that particular issue. Do you still attend LDS church? How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? Andrew, Joseph Smith dictated the story of princess Katumin and her regal father Onitas to his scribes Oliver Cowdery and William W. Phelps, who recorded the tale in two small notebooks. This is one that definately left me wanting more. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born.. God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Seventh East Press. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. [4] Metcalfe had become an ardent supporter of the counterfeited Salamander letter, and hired by Christensen to research the letter. Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. I hope to move on some day as well. In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. brent metcalfe excommunicated. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. Very informative. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. @BHMetcalf. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. Thank you Brent and John. Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. What has Brent done to mitigate his ADD? In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. https://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/. Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. Brent Metcalfe borrows the titles of a few works on literary and narrative theory and then concludes that such theory under mines the historical claims of the Book of Mormon. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. Tom Phillips, Simon Southerton, Brent Metcalfe, Jeremy Runnells, Grant Palmer, etc. If so, what will be the subject? But those were interesting times! Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. It all depends on the depth of study one does. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Ron Priddis was my friend, and had recruited me to be a writer. Wow John, what an interview. Twitter. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. This was an awesome interview. My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. Isnt that a dangerous and at least weak and anything goes approach, especially for fanatical groups? Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. Thanks for the great podcast. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. How have things changed over the decades? I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Great interview. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things.
brent metcalfe excommunicated