Theyre not on a website. [2], Brandt noted that Morrison never asked about, or expressed concern for, her daughter's well-being. Anything interesting in that that you noticed? And they released this quote-unquote report in April of 2021 with their findings. And I asked in the email exchange: Is this about the anonymous email? And I was actually really nervous about doing any press for this reason. And I think psychologically one way people feel safer about it is to say: No, that happens to other people. in America. Thank you so much for having me. "She lies better than I can tell the truth. So, yes, an article came out in the local paper saying that she had been arrested. MF: They have since claimed that that is not what they [laughs] insinuated, I believe my former lawyer spoke to it in The New Yorker piece. 2020 College graduate Mackenzie Fierceton (Photo from Mackenzie Fierceton). Because Im not under any illusion that Im the typical foster kid. Fierceton is the 31st Penn student to be chosen as a Rhodes Scholar since the distinguished program's start in 1902. And we do know for sure that she was in touch with the university. It quotes her as saying "If you find me dead, it was my mom. But in this application they had two questions which are to determine financial aid. And then I remembered that my teacher had told me to write a gratitude list. Enough blood? The wellness director told her she would have to notify the state's Department of Social Services (DSS) of the incident. So that was, I think later on that specific line came into question. And the chain of events that happened leading into foster care? Absolutely. That evening that the article came out is when I got a call from the reporter saying: I got this anonymous email that said X, Y, Z, and I wanted to let you know. MF: So thats the background of him. The fact that they even challenged that really does expose a lot of whats going on here because I assume in their mind, theyre saying: Well, she went to this private school; she had a nice house; her mom probably drove a nice car maybe you even drove a decent car! RG: Like, those two things dont fit together. And then theres also foster siblings in the sense of other people who are in the foster care system who youre living with. RG: in America. And I told them I only have a half-hour, because Im working, Im in class, and were going to go through all of this. You know, I believe the first people who said that was the Rhodes Trust. RG: And all of us, no matter what our situation, are not completely safe from it. verbally. And that is part of what felt like it gave me such a home, is because we had these sort of underlying shared experiences, but all came from different backgrounds to an extent, and all still supported and accepted one another. It finds the definition the university's office uses, without that language, as being more determinative; Penn First, the FGLI student organization Fierceton had been involved with, also used that definition on its website for most of the time she was an undergraduate. And in the U.S., there is much more pressure to pull kids out of homes, right? Jay Caspian Kang sounded similar themes in two different New York Times newsletters discussing Fierceton's story. [2], Almost three months later, The New Yorker ran a longer article about Fierceton, which had taken the magazine eight months to report and fact-check. Or was the real issue that Fierceton did not really fit the profile of a suffering student who needed the benevolence of an Ivy League school?" How much research has been done on the foster-care-to-prison-pipeline? And it has, has she stuck by that? It didnt, though, to the University of Pennsylvania. I took photos of the building and sent it to them, and I was connecting them with different people who were in my class, who were in his class. @RachelAviv for @NewYorker [2][4], After she had recovered from her seizure incident earlier that year, fellow students told her how difficult it had been for first responders to get to the basement of Caster Hall, where SP2 is based and holds most of its classes, and how difficult it had been to get her out. Mackenzie Fierceton didn't come until much later, but with good reason. And again, people, including Penn administrators, have the perception of I think the stereotype and my friend Anea Moore, whos a Rhodes Scholar and graduate of Penn who founded Penn first or co-founded it had a really great quote in The New Yorker about we arent all, quote-unquote something along the lines of like impoverished, inner city kids who go to crumbling public schools as the wider media portrays us to be. How many people kind of fit that category that you interacted with, and how many kind of fit closer to your category, not just in your own interactions, but also in your research? RG: And whats the difference between the U.S. and English system? Fierceton believes it was likely sent by Morrison or one of her close relatives. Like questioning: How much blood? [2], Fierceton was accepted at the University of Pennsylvania (commonly known as Penn) on a full scholarship, arranged through QuestBridge. She definitely asked some questions about it. It was: Shes a spoiled little brat. But Mackenzie Fierceton is not a liar. "[2], Fierceton was one of 15 freshmen made Civic Scholars, a program focused on social justice and community service, with an emphasis on confronting the intersections of identity and privilege. ")[3], The OSC report also concluded that nothing in her academic record warranted the revocation of either degree. Fierceton said that when she had applied to SP2 as a sophomore she had cleared it with the school's associate director of admissions, who told her that a student's biological parents were not relevant to that definition, and said the same thing in 2020 (Penn's OSC interviewed the associate director and SP2's associate director for financial aid whom Fierceton said she had a similar conversation with; neither remembered speaking with Fierceton about the issue)[1]:111112). I think youre right. Brandt, the Chesterfield police detective who had originally investigated the case, said later that the prosecutor never explained to her what that new evidence was. Mackenzie went to a private prep school, Whitfield, in St. Louis and was an active student. What happened the night you ended up in foster care? And then I remembered that my teacher had told me to write a gratitude list. We dont have ads, so we depend on our members 35,000 and counting to help us hold the powerful to account. You know, in my personal experience, there were not very many kids who came from a background like me. And so when you applied for your masters in social worker or sociology? [2][4][15], After learning this, Fierceton and a fellow SP2 student began doing research. Because that was one of the ones that really blew my mind. And they were the ones I believe and this is public now because Penn attached it to their response to the lawsuit I filed and I believe they were the first ones to mention that I had gone to private school and that they were questioning if I was low-income. Laura Flynn is our supervising producer. How did you get to school? And I turned over all this information to his widow. You didnt grow up in crumbling projects your entire life. MF: No, I found it before. First of all, thats one box? Attached were copies of the Missouri court orders expunging Morrison's arrest and removing her name from the DSS registry. Right. MF: You know, I believe the first people who said that was the Rhodes Trust. [2] Katie Couric had Fierceton as a guest on her podcast a week later. How many people kind of fit that category that you interacted with, and how many kind of fit closer to your category, not just in your own interactions, but also in your research? Like, I dont have the precise statistics in front of me, but if you asked people to guess at the number of people who will experience, say, two years of poverty in their life, people will miss it by magnitudes. [2], Fierceton remained in the hospital, where DSS ordered her placed in protective custody. A week later, Brandt interviewed Morrison again at the police station; this time she said that her daughter had injured herself, saying "I guess she has more problems than I thought." "[2], That feeling was not mutual, Fierceton came to suspect. And thats an unfortunate reality so many survivors experience, not having a lot of documentation. [14], The publicity led 150 Penn students to stage a walkout from classes to demonstrate in support of Fierceton. So these are all things Ive learned [laughs] I learned after the fact. [9][3], In her sophomore year, Fierceton, already majoring in political science,[3] decided to pursue social work as a career, with the goal of being a voice for children in foster care like the ones she had come to know. [2], Morrison retained William Margulis, a former member of Whitfield's board who had sent four of his children there, including one of her daughter's classmates, as her attorney. RG: So one of the questions that you mentioned that they asked was about your essay , RG: which, correct me if Im wrong, but I think it begins saying something along the lines of: Youre in the hospital, you looked in the mirror, and you couldnt recognize yourself, you couldnt recognize your features. I didnt really know what it was going to be, but I feel like its always good to have someone with you. MF: Yeah. And, in this case, almost everyone who was involved in the university administration are upper middle class or very wealthy, highly academically educated white women. But I got a bit of pressure from Penn to do that. Our greatest desire is that Mackenzie chooses to live a happy, healthy, honest, and productive life, using her extraordinary gifts for the highest good." Have you ever heard of her case? Again following the advice of her college counselor, she did not identify her parents on her application, since she was estranged from both of them (she describes them both as "biological"[3][2]). Mackenzie Hargreaves is a fictional character from the Australian soap opera Neighbours, played by Georgie Stone.She made her first appearance on 30 August 2019. University of Pennsylvania student Mackenzie Fierceton had her Rhodes Scholarship revoked and her master's degree withheld after allegations surfaced that she was lying about her. I wasnt there for all of this, but after I went through all these interviews, that was my conclusion. Yeah, so Penn First for the whole FGLI community. When they did, they were unable to get stretchers or backboards down Caster's stairways or elevators as there was insufficient space. [1] It appended both the Rhodes report and OSC's as exhibits. And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. 24-year-old Mackenzie Fierceton won the Rhodes scholarship in November 2020, but a tip-off to the prestigious committee kicked off a deeper investigation into the student's background. [1]:115 As to her previous involvement with the child welfare system, Penn says Fierceton told them she was not certain, but she was referring either to the guardian ad litem appointed for her during her parents' divorce or an earlier incident when she and her biological parents were still living in Connecticut. And theres also literature thats economic literature versus sociology, different fields have different perspectives on what that relationship between foster care and the criminal justice system is and what the causes are. Or is that it separates two into one? MF: Yeah. Are we going to see these injuries? But I guess I cant say for sure. I think [its] called Penn First, I believe, and it seems like you socially spent a lot of time with them? But once I got out of the hospital and I learned that information, I remembered that a classmate had died in the same basement about 16 months earlier. At first she explained Fierceton's injuries as either having been caused by an intruder or somehow self-inflicted, then said her daughter had fallen downstairs while she was trying to help her get some chewing gum out of her hair. There were three instances of attempted contact from her family or foster family. So normally the term FGLI, its just an umbrella term for both. The recurring sexual abuse by Lovelace had made Fierceton even more anxious over the summer after he gave her mother a gun as a gift (Morrison had called the police after Lovelace showed Fierceton pictures of the gun. Fierceton clarified her identity during the interview:[4]. Then the University of Pennsylvania accused her of. And Im curious where you would pinpoint it, but I would guess that its The Philadelphia Inquirer story that started with an incorrect lead that said: Mackenzie Fierston grew up poor, something very close to that? The Chronicle reports that although she spent her final year of high school in foster care, the student had grown up in an affluent suburb of St. Louis with her mother, a radiologist, and attended private schools. While Kerr noted that Fierceton's three weeks in the hospital was far longer than might be expected given the bruises that led to her admission, she also noted the absence of injuries to Fierceton's back despite having reportedly fallen or being thrown downstairs. RG: And I just want to read this for people. This can happen to someone in my community. RG: Rather than it being for the purpose of benefiting the students themselves. So now Im looking at one American city and one English city and comparing the experiences of youth who crossed over from the child welfare system to the criminal justice system in both of those cities and kind of how the geopolitical environment and local policies and practices might impact the rate of youth crossing over and their experiences.Then its going to be a qualitative study in just really trying to understand their experiences from their voices, which is something that I often find missing from research. So to me it was pretty clear that it likely came from them. MF: verbally. And we entered the meeting and it immediately felt really hostile to me. After her graduation summa cum laude, political science professor Anne Norton invited Fierceton to stay with her and her partner in their large house in Northwest Philadelphia for as long as she needed to in order to complete her master's over the next year. [Laughs.] What was the response from the readers of the paper? Who would hold party elites accountable to the values they proclaim to have? And I havent been on any of the Penn websites. After her mother left, Fierceton got out of bed, found a spare set of keys and drove herself to school. She didnt know he was in the basement. Mother and daughter both told the same stories they had earlier; Morrison depicted her daughter as "willful and intense", claiming she had bought and read many books to try to help her understand the issues she said Fierceton had. I want to talk about where you think that pushback came from. Ultimately, she lost her Rhodes Scholarship, and Penn withheld her masters degree, demanding a letter of apology. So they didnt ask about that in this meeting. There were definitely, Im sure. Aviv tells the story of Mackenzie Fierceton, a former student at the University of Pennsylvania. And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? Like there is more attention to systemic poverty and trying to keep children in their homes to begin with, I would say, which is important, because if you can keep kids in their homes, then theyre not in the system and facing that foster-to-prison pipeline. The university writes: After those who knew Fierceton raised questions about her story, it was investigated not just once, but several times, and not just by Penn faculty and staff, but also the Rhodes Trust. If youre an independent student, then you should check yes to both boxes. 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